From the CR Soc. Archives: Dealing with Hunger's Effect on Sleep
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:51:20 -0500
From: Brian M. Delaney
Message-Id: <199504071451.JAA14635@ellis.uchicago.edu>
To: crsociety@chunks.csn.net
Subject: CR and Sleep
Steve M. wrote:
>
I changed the whole thing around. I eat at most 450 cal
in the morning (sometimes none), slog through the day till
around 5:30 PM, and eat the remaining 2200 cal then. I have
found that you don't wake up hungry using this approach. I
now sleep just about as much as I did before I started CR.
<
I think this is an excellent way to deal w/the hunger at
night problem, but I have one hesitation about it: its
(possible) effects on diurnal hormone rhythms. This is not
something I've looked into closely, so, at this point, my
concern is based mostly on ignorance -- but what I know
about cortisol secretion leads me to believe that there
might be a prob. Cortisol levels normally rise starting in
the early morning (as melatonin levels decrease). This can
be seen -- roughly -- as "preparation" for things that
normally go on during the day, including eating. Now, we do
know that every-other-day feeding in rodents leads to very
weird endocrinological effects, like 48-hour (!) cortisol
rhythms. My question is: is it possible that a pattern of
very light breakfasts and huge dinners could alter endocrine
rhythms in humans in a negative way?
I don't know, but it's worth looking into. (Of course, it's
also poss. that the altered rhythms would be positive.)
My way of dealing with the prob of going to bed hungry has
been to cut down my lunches (at this point, lunch for me is
just a snack). That way, I can still have a fairly sign.
dinner, while also being able to eat a big enough breakfast
to get me going (and to fulfill the imagined "need" of my
rising cortisol to have a sign. amount of food in my belly).
I pop a few pieces of fruit right before bed if I'm really,
really hungry.
Still, this doesn't solve the early waking problem.
-Brian.
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:42:23 -0500
From: Brian M. Delaney
Message-Id: <199504081842.NAA00532@ellis.uchicago.edu>
To: crsociety@chunks.csn.net
Subject: Hunger and getting sleep
Dr. Michael R. Edelstein <75533.2676@compuserve.com> wrote
(in correspondence to me, quoted w/permission here):
[Brian said:]
>> Moi, I have to sneak a few frozen pieces of fruit (Cascadian
>> Farms frozen organic fruit -- yum) right before bed to keep
>> my blood pressure from dropping to near-vacuum levels.
>Do you measure your BP before bed or do you get symptoms?
I get symptoms: light-headedness (just when standing up too
quickly), mostly. Also, my pulse gets really, really slow
(~40 bpm).
>What is your NVL?
Not literally, but < 95/50. That's not so bad (esp. since my
normal BP isn't much higher) but -- >
>Why are NVLs in bed harmful?
Actually, it's not the NVL that's bad in itself, it's the
consequence of the mechanism that causes it (my guess). And
I'm not even sure about this, but it seems like something
like this is happening: Eat less than bod wants ==>
electrolytes get screwed up (mostly: Na gets too low) ==>
bod needs to rebalance Na levels ==> bod cranks out
norepinephrine (among other things) ==> person gets jittery,
and can't sleep. So the NVL is just a symptom of the bod's
dealing w/screwed up electrolytes.
The end prob is the sleep difficulty. Low BP itself is
probably a good thing (until it really gets to NV
levels...).
* Tip: eat a little sodium before bed. This has been helping
me, I believe. I'd love to hear how this works for others.
I'm going into a period of intense work, so I might drop out
of sight for a bit.
But I'll be lurking..
Chow/Ciao
Brian.
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:32:30 -0600
From: Stephen Mehalek
Message-Id: <199504261732.AA05782@teal.csn.org>
To: crsociety@chunks.csn.net
Subject: Re: CR and Sleep
>On 4-6-95, Stephen Mehalek wrote:
>
>> Both myself and Brian have come to the same conclusion, that at
>> least in our cases poor sleep will result in a measurable rise in
>> Body Temperature the following day. You can measure this with a
>> thermometer, and I would like to find out if anyone else has noted
>> this.
>
>I have been getting less sleep--and feeling more energetic--
>since I started CR. [I suspect additional factors that may be
>contributing to my sleep restriction (SR).]
>I have been measuring my body temperature and it is not
>elevated--it's even low at times.
>What mechanism(s) do you suppose accounts for the association
>between elevated temperature and SR?
>
I think the central mechanism behind this are normal cyrcadian
melatonin and body temperature rythms are disrupted. Body
temperature appears to be link very closely to sleep rythms.
>> I totally disagree with the concept of sleep restriction in the normal
>> healthy adults. Everything I have found points to the fact that sleep
>> restriction results in impaired immune function. I don't have any
>> references to back this up in front of me. But I have posted some of
>> them
>> to Sci.life-extension regarding this issue. Also as I mentioned at
>> the start of this I believe that lack of sleep increases your Body
>> Temperature, a negative.
>
>SR has not seemed to impair my immune system function, if I can
>use susceptibility to colds and flus as a measure. Is this a
>valid way to evaluate ISF?
>
I recently posted an article from Science News to sci.life-extension
about immune system impairment and sleep deprivation. I don't have
the citation anymore, or I would repost it. The details of study
indicated that sleep restriction resulted in a measurable decline in
certain certain types of white blood cell counts that were
associated with immune system function. I wish I still had the
article so I could give you the details. I believe that Brian also
found similiar evidence from Medline when he did a search on the
subject. (Brian, feel free to chime in at anytime).
I would say that the sleep restriction under CR is probably
acceptable, since we can demonstrate improved immune system response
from CR and increased life span.
However, I strongly believe that that large amounts of sleep
restriction for people not practicing CR is a definite not good.
And, it's only a hunch on my part, but I also believe that sleep
optimization under CR would be beneficial.
Steve
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:13:51 -0500
From: Brian M. Delaney
Message-Id: <199504271613.LAA05242@ellis.uchicago.edu>
To: crsociety@chunks.csn.net
Subject: Re: Sleep and CR
Steve M. wrote:
<
I recently posted an article from Science News to
sci.life-extension about immune system impairment and sleep
deprivation. I don't have the citation anymore, or I would
repost it.
>
Steve, I think it was the Jan. 7, '95 issue, if memory
serves.
>
I would say that the sleep restriction under CR is probably
acceptable, since we can demonstrate improved immune system
response from CR and increased life span./
However, I strongly believe that that large amounts of sleep
restriction for people not practicing CR is a definite not
good.
<
I agree (w/both statements). The study reported in Sci. News
involved depriving the subjects of sleep from between 3AM
and 7AM, or something similarly extreme. Other research
suggests such a radical sleep-deprivation (radical in
duration, and also by dint of the timing -- 3-7 is more or
less in the middle of our normal sleep cycle) has many
deleterious effects. But a little sleep restriction may not
be a prob (whether or not we take into account the benefits
of CR). For me, now that I'm at a quite severe CR level, I
find I often wake after around six hours of sleep -- but
sometimes it's more like seven, and, even when it's six, I
often can get back to sleep briefly. I doubt six to
seven hours of sleep would cause any significant immune
perturbations. For a lot of people, 6-7 hours is normal.
(There are nights, however, when I only get around five.)
Still, I agree w/this:
>And, it's only a hunch on my part, but I also believe that
>sleep optimization under CR would be beneficial.
Here are some tricks that I use. I'd like to hear what works
for others:
(The first two suggestions are just general
insomnia-prevention tricks.)
1) Room-darkening. I bought some cheap table-cloth material
(some kind of synthetic rubber-like stuff w/the cloth-like
[also synthetic] material on the back), put a few small
nails on top of the bedroom window, put some grommets in the
cloth, so now I can easily hang it up before bed. I put some
velcro on the sides for a tight fit. A slight pain, yes, but
it produces a nearly pitch black room (the only light is
from the cracks around the door).
2) (White/pink) Noise machine -- or maybe just the radio
turned to the end of the dial (might catch a few pilots from
time to time).
3) NaCl. This really helps me a great deal. My guess is that
it works by preventing or blunting the
norepinephrine release we discussed earlier. I take a
little before bed (not always, just when I'm really hungry),
and have some by my bed for early morning stomach grumbling.
4) Eating large dinners. Since I, personally, also need to
eat substantial breakfasts to "get going," the only way I
can also eat large dinners is by skipping lunch (or just
having a piece of fruit or smth. small like that). This is
what I'm currently doing. Still, I'm hungry by the time
bedtime rolse around. I'm going to try to eat later dinners,
but for other reasons this may not work.
The first two tips would be unnecessary if one's schedule
could be made to be in sync w/both 1) nature and 2) one's
immediate social world. This isn't possible for me right
now. I'm moving to Oregon in the Fall, tho', where I'm going
to try to get on an earlier schedule (and where I won't be
living above undergraduates who stay up until 2AM partying).
-Brian.
